I can't begin to express the absolute anger it evokes in me when I hear of my guildies spending 4 hours in 25man Naxx only to have KT loot ninja'd. It is heart breaking.
Leveling up my toon I had heard of such things happening but never experienced it personally. I was shocked at level 70 when a guildie had indicated it had happened to them in an instance. People actually do that? I was absolutely shocked and even more angry. Our guild was ticked and it was the talk for an hour I'm sure.
Something is in the air in the last few months though, as it has become almost common place to have loot ninja'd and people are almost complacent about it. No one seems surprised when it happens or even barely upset. "The raid leader gave the loot to his couple of guildies that were there" is the kinda stuff I hear. "Awwww that sucks" someone might say, then end of conversation.
If I have run a 25man Naxx and you ninja the loot, you have stolen my time, my buffed food, my flasks, my mats and yes my chances to obtain that loot. Are folks really that desperate for stuff? Other than not pugging what could Blizzard do to make this more painful for these individuals that feel our time and effort is worth nothing?
Sorry for the bitchin' session. Can't help myself sometimes.
As a raid lead and master looter, I honestly can't fathom being such a douche. As much as my heart breaks when a guildie loses the roll three weeks in a row on an item - loots rules are loot rules and making an exception once opens the door to potential big messes in the future.
ReplyDeleteWhen we do have to pug, we always let the pugs know our loot rules upfront. We don't use a point system like DPS or EPGP. Basically, all non-tier pieces are open roll to everyone, main spec first. Yes, yes there are dual specs now. The way we get around this is to have everyone roll the same spec throughout that particular raid lockout period, including pugs (as we do invite pugs back for clean ups unless, except for the very rare occasion).
Tier pieces are first for guild member main spec rolls. If any tier pieces are passed for main spec, then it's open roll for anyone eligible including pugs.
When it comes to special items like the EoE key, the item goes to our primary raid lead first, second to main tanks/officers, then open roll for all including pugs. Some people can certainly argue the fairness of this and I can see both sides.
I've found that when you are upfront with pugs about loot rules though, they either like them and stay or don't like them and leave. Most appreciate the fact that they are given the rules upfront and have the choice to stay or go before being saved. In addition, the overwhelming feedback from pugs we've had is that the system we have is fair so I've not had reason to change it (yet).
It's unfortunate to hear about your fellow guildies though. The sad thing about the situation is that the only thing that can really happen is for a guild to have such a negative reputation that no one pugs with them, and even then the guild is not likely to care anyways because there will always be some pugs around who either don't care themselves or don't know any better.
Although I prefer a full guild run, bringing pugs into our raids is necessary as our numbers just aren't there lately for 25man so it's necessary. Much better we do the pugging than put our trust into other groups and pug ourselves.
ReplyDeleteWe'll just need to be more careful if we do pug ourselves to put ourselves with previous groups we've had positive experiences with.
I find myself more often filling in PuG slots in other guild's raids than picking up players to fill my own (the unfortunate consequence of an unorthodox raid schedule). I always give the Guild players deference when one of there members mains has a shot at a substantial upgrade. It is just the polite thing to do when that Guild and its leadership have gone to the trouble of organizing the raid I have been enjoying. As a result, I never find it hard to get an invite and ultimately get the gear I need. It really does pay to be polite, it is just more of a long term investment.
ReplyDeleteAs a ninja looter story, I still fume over this time this Shammy ninja'd Death's Bite "for PvP" over my dedicated PvE Ret Pally. Even though it was only a 10 man drop and I have since upgraded, it is still a moment in my play that I remember in disgust. I still do not group with anyone in his whole Guild.
Also, anyone remember Domo's chest in MC? That allowed ninja looting at its finest.... ;p
I feel your pain. I hate ninjas with a passion.
ReplyDeleteI myself have never been ninja'd but if it ever happens and I'm in that guild's Vent server you had better believe I'd bitch up a storm. Then I would submit a support ticket to inform the GM (not really expecting anything to come of it) and then send out tells all over the game server stating to never play with such-and-such a guild because they are all ninja dirt bags. If more people did that maybe it would start to make a difference.
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